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樓主: everok

[交易商] 瑞富门事件(REFCO)4亿3000万美圆财务丑闻

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發表於 2005-11-1 19:07:18 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:88d716cfd0="vieok"]
everok 很地道,不象某个“套客”论坛现在还在蒙蔽大家![/quote]
呵呵。这个称谓有创意。
發表於 2005-11-1 19:31:32 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:d3d300a2bb="everok"]thomasmo88 ,百脑汇不是任何一个公司的IB,如果你是通过2FXALL在REFCOFX开户的,在10/12 我们就已经通知所有用户最好从REFCOFX提款或者至少转款到FXCM,而REFCOFX停止客人提款是在10/17。只要信任我们的建议的,有充足时间提款。
[/quote]

吹牛吧,Refco 13号就暂停提款了, 17宣布破产保护的,罗杰斯都没你快呀, 要不你根本就没REFCOFX的客户, 要不就是和REFCO一起蒙大家吧。
發表於 2005-11-1 19:54:45 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:c5846ffaa6="david11"][quote:c5846ffaa6="everok"]thomasmo88 ,百脑汇不是任何一个公司的IB,如果你是通过2FXALL在REFCOFX开户的,在10/12 我们就已经通知所有用户最好从REFCOFX提款或者至少转款到FXCM,而REFCOFX停止客人提款是在10/17。只要信任我们的建议的,有充足时间提款。
[/quote]

吹牛吧,Refco 13号就暂停提款了, 17宣布破产保护的,罗杰斯都没你快呀, 要不你根本就没REFCOFX的客户, 要不就是和REFCO一起蒙大家吧。[/quote]

你真是XX,要捣乱也要有智商呀。
只要是人都知道REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。
發表於 2005-11-1 20:02:54 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:93682d0d5e="585t"]

你真是XX,要捣乱也要有智商呀。
只要是人都知道REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。

[/quote]

[quote="hu"]
Oct. 13

Refco announces liquidity shortage at Refco Capital and a 15-day freeze on withdrawals. Refco representative says he brought the Rogers matter to Refco's board and its bankruptcy law firm, but nothing was resolved.

[quote]

真是没劲, 要不就是骗人, 要不就是骂人, 这个网站怎么这样了, 之前挺好的, 哎
發表於 2005-11-1 20:07:41 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote="david11"][quote:27d554db8c="585t"]

你真是XX,要捣乱也要有智商呀。
只要是人都知道REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。

[/quote]

[quote="hu"]
Oct. 13

Refco announces liquidity shortage at Refco Capital and a 15-day freeze on withdrawals. Refco representative says he brought the Rogers matter to Refco's board and its bankruptcy law firm, but nothing was resolved.

真是没劲, 要不就是骗人, 要不就是骂人, 这个网站怎么这样了, 之前挺好的, 哎


你真是XX,要捣乱也要有智商呀。
只要是人都知道REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。
發表於 2005-11-1 22:33:43 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:239ce4ba4b="david11"]
真是没劲, 要不就是骗人, 要不就是骂人, 这个网站怎么这样了, 之前挺好的, 哎[/quote]

可能是某种“套客”论坛的。。。。,嫉妒别人以国人利益为先,及时提醒,....做人要厚道,嘛帮美国骗子蒙国人呢?

我不是这的会员,但多亏即使提醒,才没落如骗局....
有些论坛现在还在自欺其人,做着能99%拿回血汗钱的梦!
醒醒吧,学学人家everok,不要让客户只有祷告的份!

是否为客户着想,这次事件是个很好的试金石!
發表於 2005-11-2 19:18:50 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:ed87b166d3="vieok"][quote:ed87b166d3="david11"]
真是没劲, 要不就是骗人, 要不就是骂人, 这个网站怎么这样了, 之前挺好的, 哎[/quote]

可能是某种“套客”论坛的。。。。,嫉妒别人以国人利益为先,及时提醒,....做人要厚道,嘛帮美国骗子蒙国人呢?

我不是这的会员,但多亏即使提醒,才没落如骗局....
有些论坛现在还在自欺其人,做着能99%拿回血汗钱的梦!
醒醒吧,学学人家everok,不要让客户只有祷告的份!

是否为客户着想,这次事件是个很好的试金石![/quote]

"套客"论坛的主人也许是不懂吧,或者真的是受控于瑞富了?毕竟那些论坛都是做IB为生的。
發表於 2005-11-2 19:58:30 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:c2b50d1c74="vieok"]

可能是某种“套客”论坛的。。。。,嫉妒别人以国人利益为先,及时提醒,....做人要厚道,嘛帮美国骗子蒙国人呢?
[/quote]

可能是英文你没看懂, 我加上中文
Oct. 11
Rogers asks Refco for a statement of the funds' assets. Refco representative provides a document showing government securities are held by Refco Capital Markets, but assures Rogers the securities will be transferred to Refco LLC.

Oct. 13
Refco announces liquidity shortage at Refco Capital and a 15-day freeze on withdrawals. Refco representative says he brought the Rogers matter to Refco's board and its bankruptcy law firm, but nothing was resolved.

有关电话记录和电子邮件显示,罗杰斯集团负责人普瑞斯一直在向瑞富确认资金保管情况。10月11日,普瑞斯通过邮件询问资金是否已妥善地放入独立存管账户时,瑞富方面明白无误地予以肯定回答。但调查显示,这笔资金次日就从瑞富LLC中调到了瑞富资本市场公司。

还有纪录显示,瑞富的一位高级副总裁曾告诉普瑞斯,他曾命令停止转移资金,并设法将已转走的资金转回瑞富LLC,但另一位高层要求先得到授权,但等10月13日罗杰斯集团发出传真时,一切为时已晚,瑞富宣布资金已不敷客户提款之用。四天后,它宣布向法庭请求破产保护。


瑞富11-12号就把资金调走了, 13日宣布冻结资金, 17请求破产保护,

只要信任我们的建议的,有充足时间提款。

不是和REFCO一起蒙大家吧

我只是做为一个普通的汇友, 给大家点实事。
發表於 2005-11-2 20:21:28 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:97992a52ca="david11"][quote:97992a52ca="vieok"]

可能是某种“套客”论坛的。。。。,嫉妒别人以国人利益为先,及时提醒,....做人要厚道,嘛帮美国骗子蒙国人呢?
[/quote]

可能是英文你没看懂, 我加上中文
Oct. 11
Rogers asks Refco for a statement of the funds' assets. Refco representative provides a document showing government securities are held by Refco Capital Markets, but assures Rogers the securities will be transferred to Refco LLC.

Oct. 13
Refco announces liquidity shortage at Refco Capital and a 15-day freeze on withdrawals. Refco representative says he brought the Rogers matter to Refco's board and its bankruptcy law firm, but nothing was resolved.

有关电话记录和电子邮件显示,罗杰斯集团负责人普瑞斯一直在向瑞富确认资金保管情况。10月11日,普瑞斯通过邮件询问资金是否已妥善地放入独立存管账户时,瑞富方面明白无误地予以肯定回答。但调查显示,这笔资金次日就从瑞富LLC中调到了瑞富资本市场公司。

还有纪录显示,瑞富的一位高级副总裁曾告诉普瑞斯,他曾命令停止转移资金,并设法将已转走的资金转回瑞富LLC,但另一位高层要求先得到授权,但等10月13日罗杰斯集团发出传真时,一切为时已晚,瑞富宣布资金已不敷客户提款之用。四天后,它宣布向法庭请求破产保护。


瑞富11-12号就把资金调走了, 13日宣布冻结资金, 17请求破产保护,

只要信任我们的建议的,有充足时间提款。

不是和REFCO一起蒙大家吧

我只是做为一个普通的汇友, 给大家点实事。[/quote]


你还普通汇友呢,你整个普通白痴。

只要是人都知道REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。
發表於 2005-11-2 20:42:42 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote="david11
可能是英文你没看懂, 我加上中文

[/quote]
自以为是,你以为大家都是文盲,现在还有人炫耀E文,。。。
尤其在这炫耀。。。
好笑!
發表於 2005-11-2 22:34:19 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:a761df6ff0="vieok"][quote:a761df6ff0="david11"]
可能是英文你没看懂, 我加上中文

[/quote]
自以为是,你以为大家都是文盲,现在还有人炫耀E文,。。。
尤其在这炫耀。。。
好笑![/quote]
哈哈,我真实醉了,可以确定这个可怜的孩子david11是没有REFCOFX账户的,整个驴头不对马嘴。 孩子,你英语很好,而且脑袋很另类,可以替罗杰斯做顾问去找REFCO要钱。

但是要记住 - REFCOFX是在17号才停止提款的。
發表於 2005-11-2 23:40:54 | 顯示全部樓層

瑞富的帐户现在还能提款或转帐吗?

斑竹:
    你好,本人用的是瑞富的帐户,由于上两个星期出差了,回来已经过了17号,但本人的帐户到现在都一直能操作,下单、挂单,打印对帐单等操作,而且我是通过2Fxall开的户,以为只是那些不合法的公司所为,所以就没有引起注意,不过今天晚上看了你们的报道,觉得很事态严重,不知道你们能否帮忙协助一下,看我的帐户里的钱能否转到fxcm的帐户里,谢谢!! :cry:
發表於 2005-11-3 00:12:02 | 顯示全部樓層
RefcoFX Associates LLC和Refco Capital Markets LLC是两家不同的公司。
發表於 2005-11-3 00:39:26 | 顯示全部樓層
那我是属于哪个公司的,怎么看啊,请教各位!
發表於 2005-11-3 00:58:31 | 顯示全部樓層

Re: 瑞富的帐户现在还能提款或转帐吗?

[quote:2a3017e68e="tonylsf"]斑竹:
    你好,本人用的是瑞富的帐户,由于上两个星期出差了,回来已经过了17号,但本人的帐户到现在都一直能操作,下单、挂单,打印对帐单等操作,而且我是通过2Fxall开的户,以为只是那些不合法的公司所为,所以就没有引起注意,不过今天晚上看了你们的报道,觉得很事态严重,不知道你们能否帮忙协助一下,看我的帐户里的钱能否转到fxcm的帐户里,谢谢!! :cry:[/quote]

17日以后已经不可以从REFCOFX提款了。

同时,REFCOFX刚冒出来的这个通知,说17日以后交易的收益也不能保证。


http://www.refcofx.com/refco-info.htm



RefcoFX Associates LLC filed a petition for relief under chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code with the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York on October 17, 2005 and is currently operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Because of the chapter 11 filing, RefcoFX is unable at this time to continue accepting deposits in its customers' accounts and is unable to release funds back to its customers.
FXCM has indicated to RefcoFX an interest in acquiring RefcoFX's accounts with its customers in a transaction under which RefcoFX customers would be absorbed by FXCM or an affiliate, and RefcoFX has been in discussions with FXCM over the possibility of such a transaction. Completion of such a transaction would help expedite the repayment of customer funds by RefcoFX, and all RefcoFX customers would then have access to funds and accounts in the ordinary course of business. Any such transaction would be subject to approval of the Bankruptcy Court. There can be no assurance that Refco FX will be able to reach any agreement with FXCM or with any other entity for an acquisition and for the transfer of accounts or that the Bankruptcy Court would approve any such transaction. In addition, any such process, even if successful, is likely to take weeks or months to complete.

There can be no assurance as to the timing or amount of any payments to customers from their accounts at RefcoFX. In addition, there can be no assurance as to whether customers will be able to access any gains from any trading activity occurring after October 17, 2005. Any return of amounts in customer accounts is subject to the supervision and control of the United States Bankruptcy Court.

Customer service representatives are still available to assist you with live trading account questions.

Please understand that we cannot in any way offer any assurances or comment on current events surrounding the REFCO group of companies.
發表於 2005-11-3 01:04:26 | 顯示全部樓層
那我该怎么办才好,那还能交易吗? :cry:
發表於 2005-11-3 02:44:32 | 顯示全部樓層
REFCOFX已经不保证17日以后交易的利润是否给客人了。
所以你交易与否都在于你的判断。
發表於 2005-11-3 08:03:42 | 顯示全部樓層
那我帐户里的钱是否暂时不能提?以后还有机会提?还是说永远都不能提了? :cry:
發表於 2005-11-3 13:53:28 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:2112441df1="tonylsf"]那我帐户里的钱是否暂时不能提?以后还有机会提?还是说永远都不能提了? :cry:[/quote]

REFCO的回答是 : 现在谁也不能回答
發表於 2005-11-3 19:31:37 | 顯示全部樓層
“REFCO的回答是 : 现在谁也不能回答”

那是什么意思,是否还不能确定
發表於 2005-11-3 20:51:21 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:fee8fbc2ae="tonylsf"]“REFCO的回答是 : 现在谁也不能回答”

那是什么意思,是否还不能确定[/quote]

现在REFCO正在出卖资产,到底卖多少钱,没有认知道。
發表於 2005-11-3 21:11:23 | 顯示全部樓層
人世间最郁闷的事情莫过于此
没有赔掉却被扣掉
同情tonylsf,看到别的论坛上一位朋友在Refco停止回款后气的把真实账户当模拟玩,结果十几天来账户翻了几番……被Refco人工报价了………… :shock: 真是……无语 :shock:
發表於 2005-11-4 23:46:00 | 顯示全部樓層
那是否等REFCO出卖资产完了,就有可能拿回自己的钱
發表於 2005-11-5 00:57:30 | 顯示全部樓層
楼上的老弟,现在你的帐号只能听天由命了,现在谁也说不清以后的发展的.
發表於 2005-11-5 13:47:09 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:dfef42926d="thomasmo88"]楼上的老弟,现在你的帐号只能听天由命了,现在谁也说不清以后的发展的.[/quote]

看了这么久,兄弟你第1次说了个有逻辑的结论,呵呵
發表於 2005-11-5 17:25:34 | 顯示全部樓層
thomasmo88 写到:
楼上的老弟,现在你的帐号只能听天由命了,现在谁也说不清以后的发展的.


看了这么久,兄弟你第1次说了个有逻辑的结论,呵呵
------------------------

我的结论对我来说有意义,可能对别人来说不适合,这很正常的.
 樓主| 發表於 2005-11-10 18:49:21 | 顯示全部樓層
Final Refco Subsidiary to Enter Chapter 7 By MICHAEL J. MARTINEZ, AP Business Writer
Wed Nov 9, 6:32 PM ET



NEW YORK - Refco Inc. hopes to put its final solvent subsidiary, commodities broker Refco LLC, into Chapter 7 bankruptcy to make the company more attractive to potential buyers, the company said in court filings Wednesday.

ADVERTISEMENT

As four would-be buyers huddled in a Times Square law firm to bid on Refco's remains, the company asked the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan to change the terms of the auction agreement to allow the winning bidder to liquidate the subsidiary — a move that would allow the winner to fold Refco's profitable trading accounts into the winner's business within days.

Under the current terms, Refco LLC would have been purchased as an entire company, instead of liquidated assets, and consolidating those accounts into an existing company would have made for numerous regulatory hurdles.

Refco was due to announce the winning bid in bankruptcy court at 10 a.m. EST Thursday. The bid must be approved by the court, as must the request to allow Refco to file Chapter 7.

The auction at Skadden Arps Slate Meager & Flom LLP began Wednesday morning and stretched into the evening hours, with the court filing late Wednesday apparently removing a roadblock for at least some of the potential acquirers.

"During the negotiations, the potential bidders expressed concerns with respect to the structure of the transaction," Refco said in the filing. "As the negotiations continued, it became increasingly clear that the sellers would obtain the maximum value of (Refco) by invoking the protections afforded under ... Chapter 7."

Refco filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 17, just eight days after it announced a $420 million shortfall in its books. Refco Chief Executive Phillip Bennett took responsibility for the money, taking out a loan to pay it back just before the company placed him on indefinite leave Oct. 10.

Bennett was arrested the following evening and charged with securities fraud in U.S. District Court in Manhattan. He remains free on a $50 million bond. The questionable accounting led Refco's customers to flee the company in droves, resulting in a crippling loss of assets that ultimately forced bankruptcy.

Private buyout firm J.C. Flowers & Co. LLP had tentatively agreed to purchase pieces of Refco for $768 million, but dropped the bid after the bankruptcy court reduced its breakup fee should Refco be purchased by someone else.

Other bidders that have announced their intentions include Refco competitor Interactive Brokers Group LLC, a consortium headed by Dubai Investment Group and Man Financial, a subsidiary of British company Man Group PLC.

Chicago-based futures and options brokerage Alaron Trading Corp. said Wednesday that its bid failed to qualify. The company said it was unclear why its bid failed.


如果 Refco LLC 也进入破产,那么所有各地REFCO的资产是否也有这个倾向???
發表於 2005-11-11 00:25:04 | 顯示全部樓層
  
2005-11-9



CFTC尚未具备监管外汇现货交易权限的一个例证

《Currency Trader Magazine》杂志05年11月刊和05年5月刊提到的Zelener案例,是一个说明CFTC至今尚未具备监管外汇现货交易(Spot Forex Transaction)权限的例证。下面引用11月刊的文章“Congress, industry debate CFTC authority”的一段内容:“... However, the recent Zelener case, in which a court ruled that spot forex transactions that called for delivery within two days were cash contracts and therefore NOT under the jurisdiction of the CFTC, ...”。该文章还提到,CFTC已经向美国立法机构提出要求授予其更多权限以便日后有资格处理相似案例。美国参议院的一个委员会打算通过CERA (Commodity Exchange Reauthorization Act)授予CFTC这种权限(即包括将监管的权限扩大到外汇现货交易上)。CERA的提案在05年7月29日上交到参议院,目前的状态仍为 “scheduled for debate”即“将在预定时间讨论”。所以从法律上讲,CFTC在CERA通过之前是没有监管外汇现货交易的权限的。
尽管目前很多零售外汇现货交易商都声称自己是在CFTC/NFA注册的FCM,但是从本文及我在11月4日的文章可以看出,到目前为止,FCM在外汇现货交易中受到的来自CFTC/NFA的监管是非常弱的。

Only futures customer's funds are segregated!!!

Refco的事情出了以后,我一直在关注事态的进展。前几天我向CFTC和NFA各发了一封email,就我关心的几个问题进行询问。原文正文如下:

You may receive many similar enquiry emails recently, after Refco began to collapse. Refco Capital Markets LLC(RCM below), which handles Foreign Exchange Spot Trading(forex spot below), is freezing its clients' trading accounts from withdrawals. Furthermore, RCM's lawyer claims that its clients' funds in those trading accounts as RCM's assets and client's shall be regarded as unsecured creditors that means the possibility of RCM's clients to reclaim their own money is hugely reduced if the court accepts RCM's view. We know that RCM is UNREGULATED.

All CFTC/NFA registered FCMs which are now handling retail forex spot trading business claim they are REGULATED and clients' funds are segregated from their own assets. Yes, they are regulated and we, forex spot trader can check their registration information from NFA BASIC. However, we don't know the details how CFTC/NFA regulate forex spot trading, especially for the issue relevant to an FCM's bankruptcy. Can an FCM do what RCM did like the above if it falls into bankruptcy, to freeze clients' accounts, take clients as unsecured creditors and so on? Can CFTC/NFA guarantee that an FCM's clients' own funds can be brought back to them wholly under that circumstance? We also have a worry that only the Futures trading business handling by an FCM is regulated seriously but the forex spot business is NOT, since both the "F"s of CFTC/NFA refer to "Futures".

我的担心主要是那些受监管的(注意,是受CFTC/NFA监管的,而不是像Refco Capital Markets LLC这样的不受美国监管的)从事外汇业务的FCM是否会真正将客户资金帐户与企业自有资金帐户隔离,从而消除在企业陷入危机时挪用或者冻结客户资金的隐患。我从来没有详细阅读过CFTC/NFA的有关规定,所以对这个问题一直没有弄清楚。

今天刚刚收到了NFA方面的回复。正文节选如下:

This is in response to your email request about Refco Capital Markets (RCM) and other FCMs.   Please be advised that according to CFTC Regulations, for NFA and CFTC registered FCMs, only  futures customer's funds (for accounts trading futures) are segregated.   For registered FCMs who only participate in Forex, those customer funds are not segregated pursuant to CFTC Reg 1.17, and if an FCM (registered with NFA) is claiming this, than please let us know.

如果我没有理解错的话,这段话的意思是“那些只从事外汇现货交易的FCM,根据CFTC的规定,是不必将客户资金帐户与企业自有资金帐户隔离的”。也就是说,那些只从事外汇现货交易的FCM,在陷入类似Refco的破产危机时,同样可以使用冻结和挪用客户资金的手段;客户在这种情况下,存在该FCM的资金是无法保证能够全部取回的。

暂时的结论就是这样。等到收到CFTC的回复和详细阅读CFTC的有关规定后,再做最终结论。
發表於 2005-11-11 00:28:19 | 顯示全部樓層
Man Financial, the brokerage arm of British hedge fund firm Man Group Plc. has won an auction of bankrupt Refco Inc.'s assets, a spokeswoman for Refco said on Thursday.
發表於 2005-11-11 01:04:00 | 顯示全部樓層
LONDON (Reuters) - Man Group (EMG.L: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's largest listed hedge fund firm, said on Thursday it agreed to buy Refco's (RFXCQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) regulated futures brokerage for $282 million.

Man will take on an estimated $37 million of liabilities and anticipates the acquisition will enhance underlying earnings per share before integration costs in the financial year starting in April 2007, it said in a statement.

The value of the tangible assets acquired is estimated to be approximately $115 million, Man said.
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